[Systers-dev] logs from irc from database IRC meeting

[Robin Jeffries]

Sounds like you made some useful progress.  Let's see if we can set up
another meeting.  I have a trip starting June 25 -July 1 (but then I should
be available for the rest of the summer -- I hope).   The people who need to
be in it are
  Pinar (archives)
  Jaideep (single signon)
  Anna (MM3.0)
and the relevant mentors, if they can make it

Are there other database touching projects we should include?

Do we have some database expertise among the mentors (even if you aren't
working with one of these project)?

I swear I used dateandtime.com to figure out the time, but obviously I
screwed up.  I'll try to do better next time.

Anna, did you send the database tables document to this list, so we have
that to think about.  It might not hurt for someone to grep through the code
and see what fields the dlist adds to the subscriber object.  (dlist_enabled
is a property of the list, not an individual).

Something that occurred to me when reading this: are you assuming that
someone has to go through a signup process to get an account on each service
managed by this single signon?  You are going to have to think about what
the UI will be for that (not now, but it belongs on your list).  Some things
to consider on both sides of this issue:

Signup process
    .+ easy to explain
     + may be easier to implement
     + probably more secure
     + we probably want to make sure people sign up for systers (or whatever
the "core" app/list is) first.  May be harder to enforce with this approach
     + if someone does want to have different identities with a set of apps,
this would make it easier, I think

No signup
  + I think this is what people are expecting -- if I have access to
systers, I automatically have access to the systers wiki, etc.  If I have
access to systers-dev, I get an account on launchpad.net/systers; this is
the barrier we were trying to lower
  + there are lists on the systers machine that have different membership
rules than systers, so not everyone on systers is eligible; in fact, what
would be the scope of this? --- could we create  sort of "equivalence sets"
of apps/lists for which a single credential will get you access or would it
need to be everything on one machine (right now, all those lists share a
single database for dlists, if they use dlist)?  But they could have
separate wikis etc, How would that work?
  + there may be downsides/security problems for people being autosubscribed
to apps and lists they didn't ask to be

(I'm sure there are more issues to consider, but this should get you
thinking)

Robin

On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 12:55 PM, Anna Granudd <anna.granudd at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi,
> here are the logs from the IRC meeting today.
>
> Anna
>
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Logs for #systers-soc

*** Logfile started
*** on Wed Jun 9 17:59:50 2010

[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [17:59:50] Topic The channel topic is "Systers is a GSoC10 Mentoring Organization! Information about projects and other info here: http://systers.org/systers-dev/doku.php/soc010".
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [17:59:50] Topic The topic was set by jenred!~jenred at mango.buunabet.com on 2010-03-18 21:27.
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [17:59:58] Mode Channel modes: no colors allowed, no messages from outside, topic protection
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [17:59:58] Created This channel was created on 2010-01-21 14:38.
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:10:29] <jdk2588> hi every one
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:11:31] <annag> hi jdk2588
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:11:37] <annag> are you jaideep?
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:18:50] <jdk2588> yes I am jaideep
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:18:54] <annag> great
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:18:57] <jdk2588> ;)
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:19:12] <annag> robin asked us to tell you she's really sorry but she can't make it
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:19:28] <jdk2588> we are suppose to have a meet within 40 minutes or so ?
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:19:31] <annag> she got the timezones wrong and was here about an hour agi
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:19:38] <annag> yes
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:19:50] <jdk2588> well I said 1900 hrs
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:19:57] <jdk2588> aah !!
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:20:01] <annag> not your fault, it was just a small mistake
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:20:13] <annag> the rest of us, I belive, are on the systers-dev list
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:20:43] <jdk2588> then she must be leaving today for a holiday
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:20:55] <annag> yes, I think so


Logs for #systers-dev

*** Logfile started
*** on Wed Jun 9 17:59:52 2010

[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [17:59:52] Topic The channel topic is "Systers is a GSoC10 Mentoring Organization! Information about projects and other info here: http://systers.org/systers-dev/doku.php/soc010".
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [17:59:52] Topic The topic was set by jenred!~jenred at mango.buunabet.com on 2010-03-18 21:28.
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [18:00:05] Mode Channel modes: no colors allowed, no messages from outside, topic protection
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [18:00:05] Created This channel was created on 2010-01-21 14:38.
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [19:03:11] <robinj> are we all here?
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [19:03:17] <robinj> I see Jen can't make it.
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [19:03:38] <robinj> who else is here to talk about the single signon and other database issues
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [19:05:49] <beachbrake> hey robinj :)
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [19:06:07] <robinj> Hi priya/beachbrake
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [19:10:08] <annag> I'm here...
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [19:10:16] <annag> hi all :)
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [19:11:16] <beachbrake> hey annag :)
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [19:13:39] <robinj> we need jaideep, right? you you here, jaideep?
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [19:27:02] <annag> jaideep doesn't seem to be present yet, I'll leave shortly, back in 20 min, half an hour tops
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [19:27:05] <robinj> hmm, it seems like jaideep thinks we are meeting at a different time. Unfortunately, I have to go in about 5 minutes. If you folks do get a chance to talk, could you send me a transcript?
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [19:27:31] <annag> shouldn't we meet first in 1.5 hours?
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [19:27:35] <annag> 19:00 gmt
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [19:28:03] <robinj> Oh, maybe I'm the one who was confused -- I looked that up on dateandtime and thought it was 30 minutes ago.
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [19:28:11] <annag> :)
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [19:28:18] <robinj> Unfortunately, I can't meet in 1.5 hours.
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [19:28:37] <robinj> I am apparently more timezone challenged than I thought.
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [19:29:04] <robinj> Can you apologize to Jaideep for me, and let me know what you resolved and what questions you have.
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [19:29:07] <annag> I can send you robinj and Jen a transcript if you'd like
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [19:29:17] <robinj> I will be on vacation for the rest of the week, so it might be a bit before I can respond.
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [19:29:19] <robinj> Thanks
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [19:29:27] <annag> np
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [19:55:00] <annag> back
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:22:40] <annag> are everybody who needs to be here present now?
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:22:51] <annag> I'm not sure who's suppose to be here... :S
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:22:54] <jdk2588> malveeka:
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:23:04] <jdk2588> malveeka: ping
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:23:33] <malveeka> hey
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:23:45] <malveeka> i can lurk around for sometime
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:23:51] <malveeka> but i can be called back
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:23:56] <jdk2588> we missed robin today
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:24:10] <jdk2588> :(
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:24:22] <malveeka> too bad!
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:24:34] <malveeka> hey anna
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:24:51] * jdk2588 waves to annag and say hi :)
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:25:05] <malveeka> could you give us the link to the wiki page where you've written about the systers db
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:25:29] <malveeka> robin said you created one last summer
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:26:23] <malveeka> jaideep - did we miss too :(
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:26:51] <jdk2588> well I said 1900 hrs GMT
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:27:10] <jdk2588> and rite now in India it is 1200 hrs
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:27:15] <annag> hi malveeka, jdk2588
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:27:38] <jdk2588> hey annag
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:27:56] <malveeka> hi!!
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:27:59] <malveeka> :)
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:28:26] <annag> http://systers.org/systers-dev/doku.php/systers_database_in_postgresql
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:28:37] * jdk2588 just go back to the mail and see did I gave the correct timings
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:28:55] <annag> jdk2588 I believe you did
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:30:19] <annag> I created a text file with all the tabels and its contents for Mailman 3.0 as well recently, if you want me to I could send it to the systers-dev list
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:32:35] * jdk2588 just checks
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:33:03] <malveeka> well that'll be helpful
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:33:09] <malveeka> thanks anna
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:33:23] <annag> np
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:46:53] * jdk2588 thinks to have a meeting bot for #systers-dev a
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:52:16] <annag> so malveeka and jdk2588, what is it that you need to know about the db (and is it for our current version of MM or 3.0?)?
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:53:03] <annag> sorry for my ignorance...
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:53:47] <jdk2588> annag: as we have to use the user data for the creation of common authentication
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:54:47] <jdk2588> and I would first like to discuss with the current version of MM
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:56:17] <jdk2588> till now what we planned for this is to create a Seprate Database for the Membership info
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:57:03] <annag> ok so you don't want to integrate this info in the subscriber table?
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:57:27] <jdk2588> the subscriber table is created for every new list that we create
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:58:10] <annag> well yes...
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:58:38] <jdk2588> but how we will keep the records for the users in a whole
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [20:59:32] <jdk2588> with the user coming and joining more than one lists
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:00:43] <annag> couldn't you add their email address to the subscriber table and in your separate table you add this as well to keep track of them?
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:01:05] <jdk2588> and we also need to have the password field too
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:02:11] <annag> but you only need one item to keep track of what list they're subscribed to right? so assuming the email address would act more or less like a PK, you could access all tables
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:02:29] <annag> although I'm no expert when it comes to databases
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:08:26] <jdk2588> annag, I guess I missed something :(
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:08:28] <jdk2588> got dc
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:09:22] <annag> I wrote: but you only need one item to keep track of what list they're subscribed to right? so assuming the email address would act more or less like a PK, you could access all tables
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:09:39] <annag> and that I'm no expert on db's
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:11:02] * jdk2588 notes
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:13:55] <jdk2588> and how about the working for Mailman3 DB?
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:14:23] <annag> I want to know what info we might need to store in a db for the ui
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:15:32] <annag> we'll use the core db to create a standard UI but I figured I'd make one customized for Systers and for that we'd probably want a new ui db (which is easy enough to integrate in django)
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:15:58] <annag> but I'm not sure what info we should save in this db
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:16:55] <jdk2588> its most probable to use sqlite 3 ?
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:17:05] <annag> yes, I think so
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:17:48] <annag> although I could probably argue postgresql would be better for Systers and just use that instead if we think it'd be easier
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:18:52] <jdk2588> as we are using storm , then it won't be much a hassle to stick with Postgresql
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:19:03] <annag> I just had a hard time creating the basic settings for PostgreSQL to work when I first tried it with Django, after it's set up it really should make no difference which db we use, it's Django handling it anyways
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:19:32] <jdk2588> agreed
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:24:24] <annag> I think what we need to find out is where to save the extra info added by systers which used to be saved in the pickle files with mailman 2.x and will now be saved in a db. We should probably save our add-ons in a db as well, the question is which one (a separate table in the regular postgresql db, in the ui db or some other option)
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:25:19] <annag> the things I'm talking about are stuff like dlist_enabled etc. which we need to run the code
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:26:21] <annag> (used to be saved in the mlist object)
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:28:13] <annag> but I think we might need a bit more people discussing this than just you and me jdk2588
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:28:27] <annag> is anyone else here atm?
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:28:52] <jdk2588> well yes the membership table created stores info about bounce_info,user-options
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:29:05] <jdk2588> I think a meeting should be rescheduled
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:29:17] <annag> I agree
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:29:42] <jdk2588> and it would be nice if Pinar could also come in it
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:29:44] <annag> should I send an email to the list and ask when other people might have time?
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:30:01] <jdk2588> yes, and I just look up for a meeting bot
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:30:12] <annag> :)
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:30:19] <jdk2588> :)
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:30:25] <annag> alright then
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:30:32] <jdk2588> ok
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:30:36] <annag> it was nice talking to you Jaideep
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:30:40] <annag> have a good night!
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:30:42] <jdk2588> my pleasure
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:30:49] <jdk2588> thanks
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:31:01] <jdk2588> btw your time zone is annag ?
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:31:07] <annag> cet
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:31:25] <annag> although summertime
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:31:42] <annag> so -3.5 hours of indian time
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:32:02] <jdk2588> so you are located somewhere in Europe ?
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:32:08] <annag> yes, Sweden
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:32:30] <jdk2588> cool
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:33:07] <jdk2588> jasocox, you around ?
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:33:24] <jasocox> Yep, I'm here
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:34:53] <jdk2588> I did the testing for the one that I submitted
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:35:12] <jdk2588> but I think these were done earlier by you and svaksha
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:35:43] <jasocox> We were testing on an unpatched server
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:35:59] <jasocox> That was more for project research
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:36:44] <jasocox> Thanks for doing the testing though :)
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:37:55] <jasocox> Don't forget to update the wiki
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:38:14] <jdk2588> cool
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:38:18] <jdk2588> :)
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:40:33] <jdk2588> and how about the UPC section testing ?
[Wednesday 09 June 2010] [21:48:53] <jasocox> Hopefully, it will be easy to get everyone together at the same time :)